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Easiest unit to install
August 5, 2009
4:44 pm
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Steve Pooler
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More than happy to do it Michael…That's what I'm here for ~

I must say you are a very patient man…If it were me I couldn't have waited a month to get her up & running.

When I get something new I want to play with it right away and dammed all that other stuff…LOL

Anyway from the pictures you sent me it looks like you have done a very professional job, and the time you took was spent very well !

You should now have a system to enjoy for quite some time with minimal maintenance….

Let us know if you have any questions on the programming/tweaking of the control, but it sounds like you must have a handle on it since you were able to access the low fan speed….High fan is also a setting that will affect every speed between High & Low…If it is set above the blowers actual fastest rpm…You may drop as many as 2 or 3 control speeds without noticing a difference in fan rpm…

Time delay is also something you may want to look at…Setting each unit with different compressor restart time delay can help when shifting from shore to gen or vise versa…You want to space out the surge load…

Glad you are enjoying it, Thanks for the referrals & Great Review  Cool

Steve~

August 3, 2009
8:04 pm
mmodlin
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Well, after a month of fun in the sun the time came to finish the project. Just in time for the humid 95 degree weather. The Turbo is as quite as a church mouse. I can't believe the difference. The RA grill faces the forward stateroom so when the old unit fired up I would always wake up. Now, I don't hear a thing from the AC and had two great nights of sleep on the boat. The reason we use the forward stateroom is because the rear unit is mounted under the bed in the aft cabin and a lot more noisy because we are right on top of it. Given the benefits of the Turbo, I might replace the aft unit next year. The reduction in noise is worth the price. Not to mention the increased airflow and reduction in amps (less wear on the shore cord and genset).

I changed the program for the HV fan on the controller and will experiment with the other options in detail later. Installation was fairly easy once I determine the best way to position the unit. It is now far enough back that I can reach the filter without too much difficulty.

The unit reached a comfortable 78 degrees (OAT 92) in no time at all. GREAT airflow. I did not see any increase with the floor access open so I guess the 140SI RA grill is doing okay but I still might add another grill later.

I would strongly recommend the Turbo to any one needing a self-contained A/C system. I was really pleased with the condensate drain. Very little standing water as it drains well with the built in channels. As another benefit, no more rust stains to clean from the side of the boat from the shower sump exit. 

Thanks again for all of your help and support during this project. With your help, I was able to learn more about my boat and save a great deal of money in the process. You price for all of the parts was the best I could find. I've posted your website on the board at the marina in hopes others will sign up, learn and SAVE. Laugh

July 3, 2009
12:45 pm
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Steve Pooler
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The wire connections are “Inside” the box…The box can be mounted several ways…

The unit hold downs are not fastened to the unit…They are separate and can be placed almost anywhere around the pan (they hook over the top edge of the pan) and stainless screws or lag bolts screwed down from the top should be sufficient…No real need to thru bolt them with nuts on the bottom, but you can if you like I guess…

Hose Splicers…You can use copper tubing (temporary) or 3-4″ bronze pipe nipples that will fit the hose….At least the copper tubing will get you running for the weekend, and it can be found at any Home Depot or Lowes…Just take a piece of 5/8″ hose with you to match up size & fit.

It dosen't have to be perfect because the hose will stretch or compress a bit with the hose clamps…You can neaten it up next weekend….Cool

You can also use 4 fittings…two 1/2″ male pipe thread to 5'8″ hose barb fittings and two of the same in 1/2″ female…Just screw the male & female together with some Teflon tape on the pipe threads a Viola…You have a splicer !!

Same to you on the 4th…But I was really hoping that you could get her up & coolin Wink

Steve~ 

July 3, 2009
9:37 am
mmodlin
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Good news... tracking number shows the unit is on the truck. Bad news... no one in town has two 5/8 inch water hose splicers.Frown

I'll pass the time by planning the install.  I think I'll make a pattern of the new units "footprint" so I call drill the pilot holes for the mounting bolts before it's in place. The area below the floor is only 19 inches so there is not much room to do that with the unit in place.

West Marine had one 90 degree elbow so I picked that up to splice the lines to run the aft unit. I tested the pump relay as you described earlier and it works just fine. If the electrical connection are on the right side of the box I should be okay. Otherwise, I have a supply of wire and splice connectors on hand. As I unbundled the wires to test the pump I noted an additional ground wire for the relay was also secured to the old install.

Expect a call from my neighbor. He has an older Morgan sailboat and is looking to modernize his A/C system. 

Have a great 4th of July weekend...

[Image Can Not Be Found]

July 1, 2009
1:15 pm
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Steve Pooler
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mmodlin said:

I downloaded the installation manuals last night

The AC wire bundle was so nicely secured I did not mess with it to test the relay. If the new unit's terminal block (left to right) is L then N for the unit with L then N for the pump followed by the ground I'm going to leave it nicely secured.

The only connections remaining form the old install are the AC wires and they functioned fine. I tested the voltage at the terminal connection when I was troubleshooting the original problem. Water flow through the forward unit has been good with the aft unit running, so as long as there is not a problem with the relay it should be okay. I guess I'll just put her in place an see what happens. Laugh


Unfortunately that installation manual dosen't show the electrical connections....You will be lucky if you don't have to make a few mods there because if I'm remembering correctly....Your old unit had the connections on a terminal strip on the top of the old electrical box...

The new Turbo will have them on the circuit board Inside the remote electrical box...The circuit board itself will have the connections labeled on the board just under the corresponding terminal (the term strip is part of, or soldered onto the board)

It should be pretty self explanatory when you get the new unit & it's box open...But that's what I'm here for if you have doubts or questions. Wink

Steve~

July 1, 2009
12:06 pm
mmodlin
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I downloaded the installation manuals last night and the first thing I noted was the new location of the inlet and outlet ports. I noted the need for a splice on both hoses but that will actually make the install easier. I can secure the hoses to the unit and then complete the splice. As the connections are on the right side right of the unit against the starboard side, this will make it easier. I'll mark the hoses on the unit to ensure I splice them correctly.

The old unit is on the aft deck and I will do a side by side photo, and I did get some pictures of the old install.

I took note of the inlet and outlet hoses to ensure they go back the same way. The AC wire bundle was so nicely secured I did not mess with it to test the relay. If the new unit's terminal block (left to right) is L then N for the unit with L then N for the pump followed by the ground I'm going to leave it nicely secured.

I think I spent too much time trying to get the unit out without disconnecting the heater hoses. Had I done that in the first place I would have cut that time down. Nonetheless, I did enjoy the task. As I said before, you learn a lot when you tackle these projects. Until I signed in to this forum I knew nothing about boat A/C systems and with your help I have gained the knowledge that is going to help me know my boat better and as an added plus, save me a minimum of 1,400 dollars. The yard's estimate was 3,500 and they have NEVER been at or under the estimate in the past.

The only connections remaining form the old install are the AC wires and they functioned fine. I tested the voltage at the terminal connection when I was troubleshooting the original problem. Water flow through the forward unit has been good with the aft unit running, so as long as there is not a problem with the relay it should be okay. I guess I'll just put her in place an see what happens. Laugh

July 1, 2009
10:08 am
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Steve Pooler
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Thanks Much for the purchase & referral !...My main objective here is to help folks, but sales do help me keep going too !

So keep passing the word around for both !

Three hours ?...Musta been a lot of help on the dock (adult beverage helpers)...Funny how everyone that has one in their hand is always wanting to tell you how to do something their way... Wink

Kidding aside though...That's not bad considering it's your first one, and you did have all that  "Help" Laugh

Did you get pictures of the old unit installed ?...Maybe a side by side comparison of the 2 units on the dock when the new one arrives ?

I think folks here would be amazed to see the differences, considering they are the same BTU size....Old vs New...

As far as the hose splice...You can even use a plug of some sort to plug the supply hose to the fwd unit so that you can run the aft while installing...The aft unit will just get double flow for awhile...Which won't hurt a thing...

BTW it's is important that the seawater runs through the unit in the correct direction, so I hope you remember which hose went where...If not that's OK...Just trace the one from the pump that feeds the unit...It always connects to the Lower of the two condenser connections.

You may have to extend the seawater hoses since the condenser on the new unit is mounted vertically as opposed to horizontally on the old...So a supply of 5/8" hose & two splicers with clamps nearby may be in order too... 

To running the new unit before install ?...That's up to you, but I can't remember the last unit out of the box that I had a problem with it running properly (unless I saw physical damage from shipping) Dometic's QC is pretty good...Usually any problems that occur are with what you connected it to that exists in the old installation...

Let me know when it's up & running...I can walk you thru programming the digital control...It's got factory presets that are OK to run, but we can fine tune it for your installation...Every installation is different, and therefore the presets are just a get started thing...Fine tuning things like fan speeds, time delays, etc. can make for a much quieter, better performing installation that you will enjoy more than the factory settings...

Funny thing is that this almost never gets done at installation and the customer never knows these settings are available to tweak...I'd say 95 % of the boats that I service for the first time have never had it done and are still set at factory settings...I do it no matter how old the system is and always get comments like...What did you do ?...It's So much better now... 

Steve~  

June 30, 2009
8:46 pm
mmodlin
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Steve - Thanks for the help with the parts order. Best price of anybody. My slip neighbor is interested in the same unit so I'm going to pass along your number.

After our conversation I headed to the boat. I got the old unit out without too much difficulty. The only extra thing I had to do was disconnect the water heater lines to pull the unit out. All total it took about 3 hours but there was the occasional break for an "adult beverage" and to chew the fat with the slip neighbors.

I'll need to drill out the duct flange as it is riveted to the fan housing. I'll do that tomorrow. The ships store did not have a 5/8 inch splice so I'll get one tomorrow to bypass the water lines. Some AC when doing this job is better than none.

Looking forward to the new unit. Is it a good idea to checkout the new unit by connecting the water and electric lines to ensure it works properly before installing it in place? 

June 26, 2009
7:54 am
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Steve Pooler
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mmodlin~

Did I loose you ?...Never heard how your weekend went with bypassing the fwd unit.

Steve~

June 19, 2009
6:56 am
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Oh…Since you mentioned that terminal strip….You could use it to test the pump relay…

Just connect the pump connection wire to the fwd unit main power wire from the breaker (black to black & white to white)

Then when the aft unit is off…Turn on the main breaker for the fwd unit and see if the pump runs (pump breaker must also be on)…If it does, Relay is good for the fwd unit.

Then turn the fwd unit breaker off and re-start the aft unit…If the pump again starts, all is good.

Just don't leave the main breaker for the fwd unit on, or else the pump won't shut off at all…

While making the connections, please be sure all three A/C breakers are off…Power could back feed thru the pump relay & let “your” smoke out Surprised

Steve~

June 19, 2009
6:36 am
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Steve Pooler
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Yes you can do all that...I would just use electrical tape on the bare connection ends (also leave off the main breaker for the fwd unit, but the pump breaker will need to be turned back on before starting the aft unit) and some masking tape for labeling where they came from so there is no question when you go to re-install...

As far as electrical shock to kill....If one didn't the other might...either way it wouldn't be fun Laugh

Steve~

June 18, 2009
11:27 pm
mmodlin
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One last question. Can I remove the front unit, safely insulate the 5 connections ( I'm thinking from what you posted, 3 from the AC power and 2 for the relay), attach a through fitting for the water inlet and discharge hoses, and run the aft unit? I have a covered electrical connector block I could use to insulate the wires. If possible, I'd like to remove the unit this weekend.

The wife has said, on more than one occasion, there is no smoking of any kind allowed in the boat; therefore, I will not jump the wires. It would not be the electrical shock that would kill me.Surprised

June 18, 2009
8:26 pm
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Steve Pooler
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mmodlin said:

Post edited 6:11 pm – June 18, 2009 by mmodlin


To test the pump relay, can you place a jumper between the black and white wires that trigger the relay then turn the pump circuit breaker on? Are the trigger wires 115VAC or 12VDC?

I'll call your office soon to discuss shipping the unit. As Larry the cable guy says, it's time to “get 'er done.” Especially since it's supposed to be 98 degrees this weekend.


Definitely Do Not Short Those Connections !!!...You Will Let the Smoke Out !!!...They run on smoke...If you let out the smoke it won't run Wink

They are 115 volt A/C supplied from the unit.

What I mean is the A/C units supply 115 to each trigger connection when a compressor starts...

To test the pump relay...Just start each unit individually as I wrote a couple of posts back...

Looking forward to your call...

Steve~

June 18, 2009
6:08 pm
mmodlin
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To test the pump relay, can you place a jumper between the black and white wires that trigger the relay then turn the pump circuit breaker on? Are the trigger wires 115VAC or 12VDC?

I'll call your office soon to discuss shipping the unit. As Larry the cable guy says, it's time to “get 'er done.” Especially since it's supposed to be 98 degrees this weekend.

June 17, 2009
7:10 am
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Steve Pooler
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mmodlin said:

Steve – I took a good look at the system this weekend. One of the two electrical boxes under the dinette is the pump relay box. The other is the electrical box for the unit. The pump relay box has four entries for connections on the side. Perhaps two for the front unit and two for the aft?

At first glance I thought I might need to remove the water heater to gain access to the attachment for the duct but I found an access hole in the dinette seat. It is the 7-inch duct. If I have this correct, it looks like the only thing I need to do is remove the water inlet and outlet hoses, disconnect the duct, disconnect the drain hose, remove the hold down fasteners, and remove the electrical connections at the electrical box. I'm I correct in assuming the only wiring connected to the unit's electrical box is the L1, L2, L3, pump relay connections, and digital display connections? 

I've heard the Vector Turbo is quite enough without the sound box but it would not hurt to get a price. Much easier to put one on BEFORE I position the unit in place. When I replace the aft unit it will have one. It's mounted right under the bed.

The dealer I spoke with said the Passport I/O has the same size cutout as the old ECU keypad. To be sure, I'll pull it out this weekend and measure.


Yes the pump relay should have 4 “entries” for wire but did you take the cover off to see the connections ?…In your case (with 2 units) it should have 4 jacketed wires…2 with two conductors & 2 with three conductors inside the jacket of each.

One 3 conductor should come from the main breaker panel (pump breaker) the other 3 conductor goes out to the pump, and the two 2 conductor wires should come from each unit's pump connection.

Each 3 conductor should have a Black (line) White (neutral) & Green (ground) wire.

The 2 conductors need only Black & White to trigger the relay (the relay box & pump are already grounded by the 3 conductor wires)

The main power from the panel to the A/C unit should also be a 3 conductor wire but it should be of heavier gauge than the others, and should have the same Black/White/Green combo as described above…Your description of L1, L2, L3 would be for “Three Phase” power which I'm sure you don't have…Marinas don't supply it without special request (and cost) plus it would only be needed in the larger yachts.

I agree with the other dealer that the Turbo compressor is very quiet, and that a sound shield may not be needed especially if your installation does not have the return air grill close to the compressor (that's where the noise would come out) however the blower (air noise) when on high speed might be louder than your existing unit since it moves more air than the old one…This should only be so when you are trying to cool down a hot cabin as the control will lower the fan speed automatically as the cabin gets closer to setpoint…and we can even adjust how low is low to reduce the air noise further…When the fan is on low, is most likely when you will be able to hear the compressor.

The Passport should fit the same hole unless you have/had a ECU Maxx which is larger.

The rest of your description sounds correct to me for the change out…

The distributor does not stock the sound shield (they don't sell more than 2 a year) but seemed to remember it was around $150 retail, and we could order one from the factory…If they are made in the Pompano plant it would likely be here in a day or two…

Steve~

June 16, 2009
5:40 pm
mmodlin
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Steve - I took a good look at the system this weekend. One of the two electrical boxes under the dinette is the pump relay box. The other is the electrical box for the unit. The pump relay box has four entries for connections on the side. Perhaps two for the front unit and two for the aft?

At first glance I thought I might need to remove the water heater to gain access to the attachment for the duct but I found an access hole in the dinette seat. It is the 7-inch duct. If I have this correct, it looks like the only thing I need to do is remove the water inlet and outlet hoses, disconnect the duct, disconnect the drain hose, remove the hold down fasteners, and remove the electrical connections at the electrical box. I'm I correct in assuming the only wiring connected to the unit's electrical box is the L1, L2, L3, pump relay connections, and digital display connections? 

I've heard the Vector Turbo is quite enough without the sound box but it would not hurt to get a price. Much easier to put one on BEFORE I position the unit in place. When I replace the aft unit it will have one. It's mounted right under the bed.

The dealer I spoke with said the Passport I/O has the same size cutout as the old ECU keypad. To be sure, I'll pull it out this weekend and measure.

June 13, 2009
8:13 am
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Steve Pooler
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I'm not familiar with your model boat…at least not by model #…It does however give me an Idea of the layout…and really…most boats, even of the same model don't usually have the same installation of A/C…

Lots of A/C is installed after the boat is delivered, so it then is up to the installer as to what goes where…I know I almost never installed A/C systems as the boat builder would have done…To be honest…We could usually do a better job than the boat builder because they don't keep guys on staff that are trained in A/C service, and what makes a system work best.

Hatteras A/C was always factory installed (A/C is standard equip) so yes in that case each model & year was pretty much the same, but Carver, Luhrs, Silverton, Mainship etc…Only offered it as an expensive option…So a lot of folks/dealers ordered the boat without, and opted for dealer installation, or contracted the A/C install themselves.

The pump relay may be down closer to the pump (I have found them in some strange hidden places) It should be a box with a Marine Air label that the pump's wire runs to…No you should not need to replace it unless it is not working properly (starting the pump when either unit calls for it) Sometimes they fail for one unit or the other, and the pump will only start with (in your case) one system instead of either…

You do need to verify it's operation after the new unit is installed to be sure it triggers the pump with either unit by running each unit by itself (with the other off) then checking for water over the side with each…This could have been the reason for the salon unit failure if it did not bring the pump on.

After looking it up…The prices you were quoted seem pretty good…I can at least match that, and offer more of the same as I have been doing here…I don't know who you are dealing with, but if they are in the Tampa Bay area they are buying from the same distributor as I do (I actually worked for the distributor here for 10-11 years) as everything Marine Air, or Cruisair, that goes thru this area comes thru them.

Also if you are looking to make the A/C as quiet as possible…There is an optional sound shield for the compressor of the Turbo units available…

I have not yet seen one, but it shows in the spec guide, and they claim it reduces noise by as much as 50% (3- 5 db)

I don't see it in the price book…but I could find out price & availability if it interests you…

Remember, your duct size (6″ or 7″) will be the deciding factor before I could quote prices…If you have 6″ you really should only go with a 12,000 which would be cheaper than the 16,000 I believe you were quoted on…A 12,000 would be better on your shore cord too since from your description it seems that both units & pump run on one 30 amp service.

 

Steve~

June 12, 2009
8:08 pm
mmodlin
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Let me provide you some more details. I have a 1994 Carver 350 Aft Cabin. It does have a single pump for the two self-contained units (3 breakers on the shore power two line; one for each unit and one for the pump). I don't think I have come across the pump relay box yet but I will take a good look at the system this weekend. I will also take a look at the aft unit and note any similarities between the two (electrical box, etc.). I'm assuming the current relay box will not need to be replaced and the two pump wires on the circuit board would go to that relay. But you may know what they say about assuming.Surprised

I try to do as much work on the boat as I can because it increases my knowledge. It has also given me respect as to why mechanics charge as much as they do. With the help of fine folks like yourself, I have had a lot of fun in the three years we have owned her.

The shipping cost was quoted as 95.00. The prices came from a dealer in Tampa and we reside in Newport News, Virginia. As you have been so helpful with this project, I would rather give you the business.

I'm looking forward to a quite AC system. Those old rotary vector units are loud especially the one under the bed in the aft cabin.

I will take some photo's of the electrical boxes and other components.

Thanks again 

June 12, 2009
11:44 am
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Steve Pooler
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If you are in my shipping area...I may be able to beat those prices...Where are you located ?

Steve~

June 12, 2009
11:06 am
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I might add/ask...If your boat has only one seawater pump that supplies both A/C units...There will also be a pump relay box with a circuit board in it.

This box receives a signal wire from each units pump connection (in or on it's box) and it then sends power to the seawater pump no matter which of the two units is calling for it....If there is a pump relay installed there should also be a breaker in the main power panel labeled A/C pump or similar.

If there are two pumps, a relay is not needed, and each units pump connection (at it's elect box) would instead run directly to the respective seawater pump for that unit...and no breaker in the main panel.

Thought you may be looking at a pump relay thinking it has something to do with the digital controls...Not so...This relay box would be there even if the boat had 3 knob manual controls originally (that is if, it only has one pump that supplies both units)

Steve~

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