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Cruisair replacement in 55 Hatteras refit project
August 27, 2011
8:42 pm
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Steve Pooler
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Hi Seth~

Really hope all is well from the storm...I have been watching & reading the posts on HOF...

Yes everyone has permission to post photos...Look at the last post in this thread: /forum/admin-notes/uploading-and-inserting-an-image-in-a-forum-post-is-very-easy/

 

If you still have trouble I will give you a address where you can e-mail them to me...Either way...Take the photos when you are there & we will work it out...

 

Steve~

August 27, 2011
8:31 pm
setho
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Hi Steve, sorry for my late reply. Been busy between the White Marlin Open and getting the engines out. I am heading down to the boat on Monday to start removing the plumbing (assuming the hurricane didn't wash her out to sea). I will get you model numbers (and yes, one of the units is 115V). It doesnt appear that I have permission to attach pictures in the forum unless I just didn't see the correct button.

August 14, 2011
10:36 am
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Steve Pooler
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Hi Seth~

 

First...What I will need from you to do a quote, is sizes & location of each & every air handler (model #'s would be nice too, but not mandatory)...We can go from there...Though I have worked on several 55C's...It's been awhile, so my memory (as earlier) may be cloudy...

There could also be more than one option in this whole project....Pictures are always a help too...

Yes we will likely stay with 230 volt although if you look...One of your smaller systems may be 115 volt...Hatteras used to do that...I think it was for when in backwoods marinas with poor service...At least the captain could have one cool stateroom while the owners went to the resort for the night...

 

Steve~

August 14, 2011
10:15 am
setho
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BTW the current units are 230V and I presume we would want to stay with that voltage to minimize amps

August 14, 2011
10:12 am
setho
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Great, Steve. The engines are coming out next week. After that we will blueprint and remove the plumbing systems for replacement. New Air Conditioning installation will likely be in October. If you would please put together an equipment quote for me at your convenience.

 

Thank you very much,

 

Seth

August 9, 2011
2:22 pm
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Steve Pooler
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setho said:

Thank you very much, Steve.

I dont believe the thermostats are digital - they are rectangular boxes with a knob on top that adjusts the "called for" temperature needle. A lever on the bottom switches between Auto, Off & On. At any rate they will be replaced so it isn't an issue....You have the old Honeywell Bi-Metal thermostats (mercury won't work on a rocking boat) those t-stats did good to keep temps within 5 degrees of where you set them...Folks always complained with those that they either too hot, or too cold...

 

From your thoughts I believe we can install self contained units in each of the 3 staterooms (separate sea strainer and sea water pump for each?  I like the self contained concept except that instead of 1 sea water pump, I will now have 5 sea water pumps (not including the addition of the bridge and engine room units). I really don't have enough room in my AC breaker panel for that many new loads. Is there any way to consolidate the pumps? or do they run off the same breaker as the self contained unit?)...You could run all three lower level units from one pump & strainer with a pump relay that gets a signal from each individual unit, and then sends power to that pump no matter which unit is calling...Or yes each unit can have it's own pump, strainer & thru hull...Each pump would be powered from it's unit's pump terminals...No extra breakers needed, and gives redundancy, but is more expensive... I am also switching my heads from seawater to fresh water, so that will leave 3 unused seacocks and strainers in the bilges in close proximity (with 8 feet) of the air handler locations. The only issue i foresee is when running at cruise speed the toilets don't always work - i assume because they don't pick up well underway - i can't imagine they are out of the water since the pickups are quite low and close to the keel (except maybe the one in the v-berth could be intermittently out of the water, but then I just wouldn't run that one). I could put scoop pickups on the through hulls to force water through and recover prime?....This is actually recommended procedure for all boats that have A/C & have speeds above around 8 knots...Over 8 knots the venturi effect of the water passing by actually sucks the water out of the thru hull & pump.

There are not air handlers in a plastic box on the bridge. The salon air handlers are Starboard: aft of the galley on the floor behind the paneling under the gunnel (directly above the compressor bank) - Port: on the floor behind the large electical closet inside the salon door. Therefore the lift isn't that far (5 ft max) for the salon units.....Ahhh...That's right...I must have been thinking of the 52C salon...

You are correct, the bridge unit wouldn't run as often as the others. I think I will install it in the focs'le under the windshield and plumb 2 supply ducts to the dashboard under the windshield where the diffusers could also double as defrosters in the winter since we do late season Striper fishing. A third duct would be plumbed back to the helm console. I assume we would need a 27K unit for the bridge to do a decent job with a three sided enclosure.

Depending on your climate I would think 27K to be a minimum...It's a greenhouse up there...

 

With all these units...Though much more efficient than the old ones...We would need to add up power requirements to your supply/s...You may have to practice some load management...Like maybe not running one or two lower units while the bridge unit is in use...

 

Should we integrate a "T" near each sea strainer for regular flushing of the sea water lines?

You can...Pieces of copper tubing cut to fit in the strainer basket seem to help too...It acts like the active ingredient in many bottom paints as it erodes...

 

My business includes an HVAC division, so my techs will be doing the installation, but we don't have any experience with marine AC. After we arrive at a plan would you be interested in quoting the equipment?

Of course I would....Also be glad to help thru the whole process in any way I can  Cool

Steve~

 


 

Thank you!

 

Seth

August 9, 2011
1:22 pm
setho
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Thank you very much, Steve.

I dont believe the thermostats are digital - they are rectangular boxes with a knob on top that adjusts the "called for" temperature needle. A lever on the bottom switches between Auto, Off & On. At any rate they will be replaced so it isn't an issue.

 

From your thoughts I believe we can install self contained units in each of the 3 staterooms (separate sea strainer and sea water pump for each?  I like the self contained concept except that instead of 1 sea water pump, I will now have 5 sea water pumps (not including the addition of the bridge and engine room units). I really don't have enough room in my AC breaker panel for that many new loads. Is there any way to consolidate the pumps? or do they run off the same breaker as the self contained unit?). I am also switching my heads from seawater to fresh water, so that will leave 3 unused seacocks and strainers in the bilges in close proximity (with 8 feet) of the air handler locations. The only issue i foresee is when running at cruise speed the toilets don't always work - i assume because they don't pick up well underway - i can't imagine they are out of the water since the pickups are quite low and close to the keel (except maybe the one in the v-berth could be intermittently out of the water, but then I just wouldn't run that one). I could put scoop pickups on the through hulls to force water through and recover prime?

There are not air handlers in a plastic box on the bridge. The salon air handlers are Starboard: aft of the galley on the floor behind the paneling under the gunnel (directly above the compressor bank) - Port: on the floor behind the large electical closet inside the salon door. Therefore the lift isn't that far (5 ft max) for the salon units.

You are correct, the bridge unit wouldn't run as often as the others. I think I will install it in the focs'le under the windshield and plumb 2 supply ducts to the dashboard under the windshield where the diffusers could also double as defrosters in the winter since we do late season Striper fishing. A third duct would be plumbed back to the helm console. I assume we would need a 27K unit for the bridge to do a decent job with a three sided enclosure.

 

Should we integrate a "T" near each sea strainer for regular flushing of the sea water lines?

 

My business includes an HVAC division, so my techs will be doing the installation, but we don't have any experience with marine AC. After we arrive at a plan would you be interested in quoting the equipment?

 

Thank you!

 

Seth

August 8, 2011
8:11 am
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Steve Pooler
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Hi Seth~

 

setho said:

I threw a rod in my starboard 12V71. They are 26 yrs old, so I am replacing with C18s. Salon is out, engines coming out in two weeks. Considering self contained systems, instead of existing split systems to save room in engine room. Also frequently lost prime with old sea water pump. I could add through hulls and place pumps below water line and close to each of the five units to minimize sea water runs. I was told that self contained systems would be much louder than the condensers / air handlers I currently have. Any opinions on self contained vs. split?…Yes…With the 55C…It was a bit cramped with the A/C condensing units outboard of the starboard 12-71…They were really tough for this chubby service guy to get to…But then again, back then I wasn't so chubby  Wink

The "Turbo" model self contained units of today are very quiet…So quiet that even though they offer an optional sound shield for the compressor…I have yet to sell one…They could be a very good option for your retrofit plans for the lower level, but the bridge & salon MAY BE a different story…I'll explain more below…

 

I was also told that I shouldn't bother replacing my coolant lines – that they will never leak unless they are pierced, however I had 2 of my old copper fresh water lines that leaked from corrosion and/or flexing?

It is unusual for a refrigerant tubing to leak in the middle of the run…Most of those leaks will show up at flare joints, and even that is rare unless some flexing is going on…Flares can always be cut out and sweat back together with solder (except at the condensing unit end)  Electrolysis or Galvanic action can also be a concern but that too is rare in a Hatt with Isolation transformers on the shore lines such as yours… 

 

Lastly I am considering installing a bridge AC reverse cycle unit. Is that too high to pump water for a self contained unit? I may also add a unit to the engine room and assume that would definitely be a self contained unit?….No it's not too high (you just use a pump sized for the job) but maintenance of the seawater lines does become an issue when pumping that far…Barnacles & the like seem to grow much faster in long runs…There are tricks to help reduce growth, but just know of the issue…

 

Continuing with my Salon/Bridge comment…Along with the water/growth issue is a sizing & refrigerant issue…

 

First…R-22 that is in your current systems is going away because of EPA mandates see my article: /2010/01/27/marine-ac-new-refrigerant-regulations/

 

Your salon A/C is 24,000 BTU…The new Turbo self contained units go up to 16K

 

There are two self contained units that are larger in sizes of 18K & 27K…The 27K may be a bit too much for your salon and finding a location for it may also be an issue.

 

You could consider retrofitting all units but the Salon, with Turbos…Then find a better, more accessible location for the salon Condensing unit in the engine room….Just extend the existing copper tubing to that location since it already runs up into the overhead…

 

If I'm not mistaken….You have a plastic/fiberglass box up on the bridge with two air handlers in it…They each draw air from a single return grill in the overhead, and then each has a duct that discharges into the salon/galley…

 

I might replace both of those air handlers (leaving the same box) since they are not compatible with the new 410a refrigerant….This will allow you to go with a new "Emerald" series system of the same 24K as is there now, and not have to worry about any duct/grille/adapter size changes…and As far as I know the original 24K did a nice job in that salon/galley…

 

Then look at a self contained unit for the flybridge…But supply it seawater with it's own pump….You likely are not going to use that system quite as much as the others, so no use pumping water thru it when it's not in use, but you could also size that pump for the job without oversizing for the others & creating problems that way…

 

Any off time will drastically slow, or even stop marine growth in those lines…When they starve for food & oxygen they can''t grow… Cool

 

I also believe that the 55C came with the now obsolete original "SMX" digital controls…So new Keypad/Displays, along with cables will need to be considered if they have not yet been retrofitted…The new units come ready for the newer controls…

 

Steve~

August 6, 2011
2:56 pm
setho
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I threw a rod in my starboard 12V71. They are 26 yrs old, so I am replacing with C18s. Salon is out, engines coming out in two weeks. Considering self contained systems, instead of existing split systems to save room in engine room. Also frequently lost prime with old sea water pump. I could add through hulls and place pumps below water line and close to each of the five units to minimize sea water runs. I was told that self contained systems would be much louder than the condensers / air handlers I currently have. Any opinions on self contained vs. split?

 

I was also told that I shouldn't bother replacing my coolant lines - that they will never leak unless they are pierced, however I had 2 of my old copper fresh water lines that leaked from corrosion and/or flexing?

 

Lastly I am considering installing a bridge AC reverse cycle unit. Is that too high to pump water for a self contained unit? I may also add a unit to the engine room and assume that would definitely be a self contained unit?