Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Grunert refrigeration issues
June 27, 2010
10:43 am
Avatar
Steve Pooler
Admin
Forum Posts: 1127
Member Since:
November 12, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My guess would be $350 or less...

He will want to replace the system drier ($30) evacuate the system, charge & test for leaks...

Evacuating is what takes the most time, and he may just leave his vacuum pump running on the system while he goes to another job...Then come back for the charging & leak test...If there is a leak...That's another story, because he may have to pull the refrigerant back out to solder it up which adds to the time he is there...

He might charge $30-$40 for the 404 & $80-$90 per hour labor...Some will charge a trip charge, or travel time at least one way...I do the latter...Split the travel with the customer...

Steve~

June 27, 2010
9:37 am
matt
Guest
Guests

steve, thanks. you've armed me with the info. i think i will probably replace it with another AC425 water cooled 404 unit this winter. what is a rough estimate for getting a certified tech out to the boat to perform the refrigerant fill?

thanks again.

June 27, 2010
8:57 am
Avatar
Steve Pooler
Admin
Forum Posts: 1127
Member Since:
November 12, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Matt~

It's not just the refrigerant difference but also water cooling is very important if a unit is installed as you mentioned…In an engine room where it can be very hot…Air only units really need a supply of below 100 degree air or they just don't work well at all, and their life is shortened drastically…

I agree that 404 is supposed to be ozone friendly…But try to go to a commercial refrigeration supply house without a certification card and try to buy some…I have certification on file so they don't ask, but anyone they don't know I'm guessing they do…Also it only comes in 30 pound jugs or larger…I've not seen it in small cans…You might never use 30 pounds…

Steve~

June 27, 2010
7:57 am
matt
Guest
Guests

Steve, thanks for the explanation of the tradeoffs between the 2 refrigerants. that certainly makes sense.

I guess i need to decide if spending 3x as much on the compressor unit, and then spending $?? on an installer to charge the system is worth it compared to the r134a unit which can be done all by me.

why is it illegal to charge your own 404 system? i thought 404 was ozone safe? is this illegal the same way going 46mph in a 45mph zone is? or is like stealing a car?

i was hoping this would be a quick weekend project but it can never be that easy!

June 26, 2010
12:26 pm
Avatar
Steve Pooler
Admin
Forum Posts: 1127
Member Since:
November 12, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi Matt~

That would depend...Refrigerant wise...On the metering devise (cap tube, or expansion valve) either would need to be changed (at the plates) to use the automotive 134a refrigerant that is used in the cheaper kits...

They also will not perform near as well...R-404 is considered a low temp refrigerant which runs an evaporator temp all the way down to -20 degrees...

R-134a is more a medium temp refrigerant, and at its very best is only good down to -10 degrees plus you are not likely to see close to that with an air cooled 134 unit...Especially mounted in the engine room where it's operating in above 100 degrees air...The unit will never cycle and keep trying to get there.

To get a 0 degree box you need at least -15 degree lower evap temp with good insulation, lid gasket, box in the shade or A/C etc...

Bait freezers on aft decks built by any boat manufacturer, have never been known to be insulated well, they are out in the sun, and the lid gaskets frequently go bad...So Grunert started building these units for lower evap temps to help with the problems inherent to the application.

Steve~

June 26, 2010
11:56 am
matt
Guest
Guests

ok, thanks for the info. not totally different than what i expected.

seems like there are some much cheaper versions out there though? and i think i've seen some split systems that are 'pre-charged'? are compressors with a different refrigerant compatible with the evaporators that are in the boat?

are there compressors that use the refrigerant that is used in car a/c systems? i know you can go to the autoparts store and buy re-charge kits for those...would that work?

thanks for your help.

June 26, 2010
11:29 am
Avatar
Steve Pooler
Admin
Forum Posts: 1127
Member Since:
November 12, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That Model is a Grunert "Passagemaker" 115 volt 1/4 horsepower R-404 refrigerant unit...Specs PDF : ** you don't have permission to see this link **

The AC425 is Water cooled only & retails for $2120.00

The AC425HA is Air & Water cooled & retails for $2830.00

You could save some money by removing & installing yourself, but legally you will need a licensed guy to evacuate, purchase, charge, & handle the refrigerant.

Steve~ 

June 26, 2010
8:48 am
matt
Guest
Guests

hi, i have a factory installed bait freezer/refrigeration system in my 1997 pursuit 3400. it is a grunert system with two plates (evaporators?) in the ice chest and then a separate compressor unit in the engine room.

the guy i bought the boat from said it hasn't worked in a while. the compressor unit is totally rusted out. i would like to replace the compressor unit myself and i'm wondering about how to go about this, specifically from the refrigerant point of view. i have installed marine a/c systems before but this would be the first time messing with the refrigerant lines and don't know about the charging aspect of it.

the numbers on the compressor are AC425REF/FZR.

thanks