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Please teach me about chilled/tempered water systems
September 29, 2011
8:40 pm
davidwigler
Knoxville, TN
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September 6, 2011
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Thanks, Steve, that's what I wanted to know.  Sounds like $45,000 minimum for equipment only.  Now I understand what you mean by expensive.

1977 Hatteras 58' Motoryacht, galley up model with 4 staterooms

5 reverse cycle Cruisair compressors in the starboard engine room with SMXII controllers.  One self contained unit for the enclosed aft deck.  Total 87K btu

September 29, 2011
7:57 am
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Steve Pooler
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davidwigler said:

Thanks so much, Steve.  Very informative.  On mild days or after dark one compressor might handle the entire boat and could  be powered by a smaller generator.

 

Are they so expensive it is out of the question for refitting an older vessel?  Generally speaking what would the parts cost without plumbing or labor for the following:

 

Retail Pricing ???…Here we go…

 

Enclosed Aftdeck: 12Kbtu…$1840.00 to $2490.00 (Depending on if you want Aux heat strip)

 

Salon: 24Kbtu…$2340.00 to $2790.00 (No Heat & Heat )

 

Pilothouse: 12Kbtu….$1840.00 to $2490.00 (Same as above)

 

4 staterooms at 6-8Kbtu each…$1640.00 to $1990.00 each (also No Heat & Heat)

 

The above quoted air handlers are ready to work with your existing SMXII cabin controls (providing that your systems were retrofitted to SMXII from manual controls & have the separate control boxes)…Or you can add/select new keypad/displays at around $225.00 each...If you don't have the remote SMXII boxes you will need to add one for each SMXII at a price of $500 each...

(I will say you are probably a bit shy on the two 12K units, so I quoted 15K units)

 

The 2 chillers can range from $7850.00 to $8000.00 Each (with SmartStart) depending on power choice (single phase 230 volt) or 3 phase 230 volt which will require a Variable Frequency Drive to run on Single Phase power but, with 3 phase compressors & VFD, starting amperage surge is completely eliminated…Then what control you plan to use for the chillers (DDC control is cheaper than TWLC, but does not come with relays & breakers which would need to be added externally)

 

A Tempered Water Logic Control (TWLC) box provides all control of staging, alternating, and protecting the chillers, and also houses the pump relays & all needed/required breakers (You can see it in the info I linked earlier)

 

A Basic 2 stage TWLC runs $9200.00 to $9805.00 (single vs 3 phase)

 

Variable Frequency Drives (VFD's) for Single to 3 phase conversion, and soft start (One for each Chiller) are $2900.00 each.

 

That should get you started before plumbing, strainers, pumps, expansion tank, back flow preventers, spirovents…etc…

 

Pricing can go up from what I have quoted if you want things like the Super Quiet DC blower air handlers, additional (Remote) Chiller Display Keypads & upgrade packages to the TWLC to read things like system pressures, Loop or Seawater pressures…And or connection to laptop computers, remote phone/computer operation/viewing (from say home) connection to Can Bus systems like whole Home remotes…etc…The list goes on…

 

Steve~ 

 

With huge exhaust chases from the transom to the engine rooms and a generator/mechanical room forward of them, it would not be difficult to add new plumbing to these old Hatts.

 

Thanks again!

September 28, 2011
8:52 pm
davidwigler
Knoxville, TN
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September 6, 2011
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Thanks so much, Steve.  Very informative.  On mild days or after dark one compressor might handle the entire boat and could  be powered by a smaller generator.

 

Are they so expensive it is out of the question for refitting an older vessel?  Generally speaking what would the parts cost without plumbing or labor for the following:

 

Enclosed Aftdeck: 12Kbtu

Salon: 24Kbtu

Pilothouse: 12Kbtu

4 staterooms at 6-8Kbtu each

 

With huge exhaust chases from the transom to the engine rooms and a generator/mechanical room forward of them, it would not be difficult to add new plumbing to these old Hatts.

 

Thanks again!

1977 Hatteras 58' Motoryacht, galley up model with 4 staterooms

5 reverse cycle Cruisair compressors in the starboard engine room with SMXII controllers.  One self contained unit for the enclosed aft deck.  Total 87K btu

September 28, 2011
9:46 am
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Steve Pooler
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November 12, 2008
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David~

I found a shorter Training piece that may also help:

** you don't have permission to see this link **

 

Steve~

September 28, 2011
8:20 am
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Steve Pooler
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Hi David...Thanks for asking~

 

davidwigler said:

How do they work?  What piping is used for the water lines?

 

I have read they are expensive....They are... What would be an approximate cost for new system on a 58" motoryacht with 4 staterooms?...It can vary greatly...Plumbing is the key & what type you decide on affects cost... 

 

What's involved in the installation?   Can a handyman do part of the project (I installed a new 240 volt self-contained unit on my last boat including a new plenum and ducts)?

 

Are they more efficient for heating and cooling than running up to 6 Cruisairs with 87,000 btu (two of which need recharging twice per year)?  How much could I save in utilities?...Yes they are more efficient...That's the benefit...Once the boat is cooled the system may only need the BTU of one compressor to maintain loop & cabin temps....

 

Are they quiet?  Do they have good air filtration?  Reliable and low maintenance?...Yes they can be very quiet because you can run lower fan speeds...Different than a Direct Expansion (freon system) that relies on air flow to keep from freezing at the air handler...The loop water never is run below 40 degrees F. so the air handler cannot freeze.

 

Thanks!

 

David...I'm sending a 87 page Power Point training production to the e-mail address you registered here with, It should give you more info than you may even want to know...It's quite a detailed job...Especially if not done at the time the boat was built...

If you have questions after looking thru that...Please come back here & ask...

 

Steve~

September 28, 2011
7:24 am
davidwigler
Knoxville, TN
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Forum Posts: 17
Member Since:
September 6, 2011
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How do they work?  What piping is used for the water lines?

 

I have read they are expensive.  What would be an approximate cost for new system on a 58" motoryacht with 4 staterooms? 

 

What's involved in the installation?   Can a handyman do part of the project (I installed a new 240 volt self-contained unit on my last boat including a new plenum and ducts)?

 

Are they more efficient for heating and cooling than running up to 6 Cruisairs with 87,000 btu (two of which need recharging twice per year)?  How much could I save in utilities?

 

Are they quiet?  Do they have good air filtration?  Reliable and low maintenance?

 

Thanks!

1977 Hatteras 58' Motoryacht, galley up model with 4 staterooms

5 reverse cycle Cruisair compressors in the starboard engine room with SMXII controllers.  One self contained unit for the enclosed aft deck.  Total 87K btu