Post edited 7:57 pm – June 14, 2011 by Steve Pooler

Hi Bernie…Thanks for posting over here ~

The old system ran for 30 years because it was clean inside, and had no leaks…Till 30 years later…

Replacement unit's & compressors….

First just so everyone is aware…With Home systems…Most Manufacturers won''t honor Any implied warranty unless both halves (Condensing Unit & Air Handler) are replaced at the same time…Or it can be documented that certain procedures were followed during replacement of the Half of that system (which is really hard to do)…Or they will wait to receive the bad compressor, cut it open, evaluate what made it fail & then either deny or approve the claim…

Given the above…The fact that Cruisair is replacing 2 compressors (even if you are paying labor on the second) should say something about them….

Now on to the reasoning for it…And No…You should not need to replace a compressor every year, or 10 years for that matter.

• Your old compressor blistering the paint off tells me it was low on freon  and running very hot (freon return is what cools the compressor)…
• This means there was/is a leak in the system…
• Did the service guy find & fix the leak, or verify that another has not returned in the 30 year old air handler ? (low freon heat thing)
• When a compressor fries it's windings…Those windings create an acid that travels throughout the system with the refrigerant & oil before complete failure…
• Then if not removed or treated it will attack the windings in the new compressor…Which will cause it to fail shortly after installation…
• Did the service guy install a suction line burn out drier to catch that acid before it could get to the new compressor unit ?
• Did the service guy at least add a acid neutralizer product such as Acid Away to the system after the installation ?
• If he did install a suction line drier…Did he return after the system had run a bit to check for pressure drop thru that drier indicating it is clogged up and reducing freon return to the cool the compressor ? (that heat thing again)

The above are all things the compressor manufacturer would want to know (and would find out when they cut open the returned compressor) It has nothing to do with Cruisair, or any other Brand, Type, Marine, Home, or otherwise utilized compressor…

Sometimes…Saving money on the 30 year old air handler is not the cheap thing in the end, and if the tech had done the above stuff with fixing leaks & installing driers…The labor charge would likely have been much higher…Not that the drier or at least Acid Away would not be warranted because of Acid in the copper line set… 

As a side note…Having properly installed & setup Digital controls could have headed this off somewhat by shutting the system down with a fault code to let you know what was wrong…We see much less of this type failure (Overheat due to low refrigerant) since digital controls became mainstream….Manual controls just don't have that capability….

Hope that explains it    and if not…Ask away…

Steve~ 

Post edited 10:50 am – June 15, 2011 by Steve Pooler

I understood your frustration…Believe me I have seen it many times having been on the "Receiving" end as the service guy…So sorry if I may have seemed a bit defensive…I try not to be, but at times it's difficult in situations like this…And we as service guys can feel a customers so to speak: "Stretched or Angry" Wave Length…Sometimes it is a case of communication (Miss or lack there of) that confuses understanding…

Cruisair/Dometic does as good a job of training factory authorized service guys as anyone can, and likely have more out there than any…But often times it's not a factory trained guy with "Real" marine experience…And that can make all of us that are/have…Not look so good…

Don't get me wrong…There are a Ton of good, honest A/C techs out there…But in my experience of trying to take residential A/C techs & train them for the marine industry…Most (and I did say most)…To start with, know little if anything about boats and any of their systems (electrical panels, thru hulls, strainers, marine A/C controls etc.)…Or the application and/or issues that go with A/C in the marine environment…

Then there are ones that own a boat (maybe live aboard) that have A/C experience of some sort and want to supplement their income (or sometimes lack of) by working the docks for cheap…Many owners fall into this (seemingly) bargain situation because they want to save a buck, he''s here, and is a nice guy…Most really are…

All that is good…But just because he has equipment does not mean he has much experience, or real training with marine A/C…My Ex boss Jack that owns the Cruisair distributorship here once said to me when speaking of one such guy in the area…

"He knows enough to be dangerous" , but then would also say…"He's a nice guy that just has'n't had anyone that knows anything to train him, Without someone to train you, you have to learn it all on your own, and that can be expensive"…All very true words…What I'm saying here is factory training is only part of it…

Jack would never think of sending a guy out on his own till he had ridden in a van as a helper long enough that it was deemed he could do the simpler jobs (usually about a year) then as he may have trouble on something (and we all always come to that point)…One of us would meet him to walk him thru it…I remember thinking I knew everything after a year or so too (and I already had 10 or so years of boatyard experience, plus a family refrigeration business before that)…Then something would come along to kick my butt !!!   

Anyway…Where I started with this is…I didn't know your guys level of experience, and know the feeling of each end…Frustration can be a description for both…The one paying & the one wanting to get paid…I also know money is tight for most all of us these days but as Paul Harvey used to say:  "Now On To The Rest Of the Story"…

Please think about doing Yourself, the A/C guy, and your boat a favor….Replace that 30 year old air handler/coil ASAP…

Being in the marine environment, and due to it's age…It's subject to leaks at any time…With a coil of that age, that has been subject to galvanic, or electrolytic action that attacks/weakens all the solder joints (solder is dissimilar to copper)…It's Time…Yes a leaking joint can be re-soldered, but more often than not, another pops up not far from the one just repaired in short order, and there are (I'm guessing) a hundred or so that make up that coil assembly…This is often a recipe for more of the frustration you have felt on this go-round…

With a old coil like that, it's always a thought of when is it going to let go with another leak & overheat my compressor with that loss of refrigerant…Yes it can happen to a new coil too, but at least you are not dealing with 30 years of solder joint weakening/deterioration…  

You now know the risk & results of running with low refrigerant…This next lesson may be a bit harder to swallow if you have to pay for another compressor & the air handler at the same time…

The additional plus side to replacing that air handler is the new ones are quieter, move more air, and drain condensate better…This almost always proves out to be better for your overall comfort & enjoyment of the boat…

Steve~

Post edited 9:47 am – June 16, 2011 by Steve Pooler

The part in the engine room (that you call compressor unit) is actually called a "Condensing" unit because it has the Condenser coil (Water Coil) part of the system.

Yes, I was referring to the Air Handlers in the staterooms which have the "Evaporator" coil (Air Coil)…At 30 years, they are very likely to be leaking refrigerant, or if not, very close to doing so with their 100 or so solder joints each being subjected to the Galvanic/Electrolytic action of the salt water marine environment for that 30 years…

Now you say…What ?…The coil in the engine room has the seawater in it…

Yes true…But there is very good electrical connection between…The connection is thru the copper tubing that carries the refrigerant to & from the air handlers…And as we know, Copper is also a very good electrical connector…The two coils are "Bonded" together…

At the very least…Those Air Handler (evaporator) or "Air Coils" should be leak tested…My experience tells me that there should be Refrigerant leaks there too…Though maybe small…A leak is a Leak, that causes a loss of refrigerant & overheated compressors….If they are in fact leaking, then everything I said earlier applies….

What I''m getting at here is (and since you have two air handlers) If you find that just one has a leak now (or even if they don''t) you may be able to get away with just replacing that one for now…But you will know that the other is not far from doing the same, and can plan your budget to replace the next a bit later…Do it in stages….But really, it is best to do both at once for the security of knowing you have a totally new system…

Think of it like this…If this was a self contained unit (all in one) you would be replacing the whole unit and everything would be new except ductwork, wire & hoses…That includes the blower….

Remember your blowers are 30 years old too…And that paying the labor to remove a Air handler, pressurize, locate & solder leaks (some models require complete disassembly of the air handler to do so)…Then reassemble, reinstall, evacuate, charge & test can be a good bit of labor…And you still end up with a 30 year old coil (that we know has already leaked, and could again from another of those many joints) plus 30 year old fan motor too…Is the risk worth it to you knowing all of what you know up to now ?

Steve~

PS…Just to make it more confusing…Those coils reverse names & function when running in the heat mode…That's why it is called a "Reverse Cycle" heat pump system…So for the purpose of discussion here I usually try to call them Water Coil & Air Coil… 

I have a split system in the saloon 22,000BTU- 1 year old – that draws excessive power and trips the circuit breaker.  There are three other units on board that work well.  Thoughts?

Thank you, Will do.