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Pioneer Mariner fan too fast

Post
Member

Shoalwaters

posts 5

2:07 pm January 2, 2011

I have just installed a 9000 BTU Pioneer Mariner self-contained unit. It starts smoothly and runs well. My problem is that the unit produces too much cold air and noise, even on the lowest fan speed. I asked the supplier, Parker Davis in Miami, if it is possible to make the fan run slower than it's standard "slow" setting. They responded as follows:

"This means you do not have enough duct external static pressure. You may be using a very short air duct or no duct at all. Try to extend the duct length to create more external air static pressure on the blower.  Also use a heavier, thicker return air filter on your return air grill for creating more ESP on the return side as well. This also helps you to have much better air filtration, less noise and cleaner evaporator."

The delivery and return-air paths are short and smooth and the system already has a return-air screen. Adding extra ducting and a heavier screen will be difficult to do and anyway seems like poor engineering. Is it possible to slow down the fan?

Mike

Admin

Steve Pooler

posts 1127

6:56 pm January 2, 2011

Hi Mike~

Though I'm not familiar with Pioneer Mariner marine A/C units….I did just take a look at their site to see what they were…

The specs show your 9K unit having a 2 speed blower…This usually means it has two motor windings, and that the Hi/Lo switch sends power thu the winding selected (Hi or Low speed)…This setup does not lend well to a variable speed control, and often the motors will overheat if one is added.

My issue is with their statement that longer, or more restricted flow will slow the speed of the motor, or quiet the noise…My experience says exactly the Opposite…It will increase both speed & noise…

Ever clog up a vacuum cleaner hose, or put a box fan up against a wall ?…

Like a propeller that can't get full bite…They speed up from that cavitation or lack of load….

A quick test for you would be to remove any duct, or duct splitter from the blower output…Move them out of the way (so as to reduce restriction) and then see if the fan speed is satisfactory…

If you find the blower does slow with no restriction, then you should look at enlarging the duct…Not restricting it more…

Restricted Air flow can cause coil icing in the cool mode & high head pressure shutdowns in the reverse cycle heat mode….

 

Steve~ 

Member

Shoalwaters

posts 5

3:23 pm January 4, 2011

Steve,

Many thanks for your prompt and detailed reply.

The circuit diagram confirms your assessment: the fan does indeed have a separate wire/winding for each fan speed. I shall leave the electrics well alone for fear of overheating.

My current ducting arrangement is as follows:
Output: 3" diameter blower nozzle feeds 4" PVC duct 18 inches long with 6" louver on end.
Return: 9" square louver mounted 3" from evaporator fins with fine mesh screen.

Removing the output ducting produced no discernable change in fan speed.

I think my options are (a) live with it, or (b) instal a branch in the output ducting and send part of the cold air into the next cabin.

Mike

Admin

Steve Pooler

posts 1127

8:26 am January 5, 2011

Mike~

I think your air noise issue is going to be the 3" blower nozzle and 4 " duct…Can they be enlarged ?

If you compare those specs to Cruisair's requirements for their 8K or 10K units you will see they require 5" & 6" duct respectively (they don't offer a 9K)  http://dometic.com/9f53cfe7-fb…..f460.fodoc

What is the temp differential from air in to air out ?…If it's much more than 18 degrees, it tells me you are not moving enough Volume (CFM) of air even though you may have Velocity, and therefore are not picking up enough heat which will cause colder discharge, and coil icing with lower cabin temps…Icing will compound the problem….

Steve~

Member

Shoalwaters

posts 5

9:09 am January 7, 2011

Steve,

Ooops! my bad: nozzle is 4", same as the ducting. I really don't have space to increase to the next size up as the run of duct is so short.  I think my only option is to install a sweep-T in the outlet line and divert some of cold air into the saloon.

 

I tested the air-in and air-out temps after the system had been running for about 15 minutes. The differential was between 12 and 14 degrees (F). I believe this is in the "healthy" range. I held the infra-red thermometer about the same distance (3ft.) from the inlet and outlet louvers, not directly in the stream of the oulet air, and aimed at the center of each louver.  I made certain the compressor was still running. I this the right way to do the temperature measurements?

 

BTW. I tried to post a cople of small pictures. I can upload them, but I can't access the "browse" tab to select them.

 

Mike

Admin

Steve Pooler

posts 1127

9:31 am January 7, 2011

Mike~

So far I've not had much luck posting pictures either…I think most forums seem to have this problem but some folks on each, seem to master it…I've just never been one of them on any that I visit…  Embarassed

 

When you say PVC duct…Do you mean solid PVC pipe, or Flex Duct ??…Flex is the way to go…

12-14 degree differential seems a bit on the low side…With Dometic products (and also home A/C) we look for 15 to 18 degrees…

Below 15 degree TD is usually a problem with the unit/system…More than 18 degrees usually indicates lack of air flow…(not picking up enough heat)

Are you getting this TD on Low, or High fan speed ???

 

Steve~

Member

Shoalwaters

posts 5

4:26 pm January 10, 2011

Steve,

I believe the unit is working as it should. The three fan speeds can best be described a fast, faster and fastest. This is likely the main source of my problem. I should probably have shelled out the extra for a Crusiair unit, but that's history now.

I have decided to split the ducting between forward cabin and saloon. When this is complete I will post temperatures and, if possible, a couple of pictures. Thanks for your input and patience.

Mike


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