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9:05 pm
June 10, 2009
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mmodlin
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Post edited 9:14 pm – June 10, 2009 by mmodlin
Thankfully, I found my password. After using the forum to confirm by compressor problem, I am now faced with a unit replacement. I have looked at both the Vector Turbo and the Compact Vector. The new unit will replace an older unit with the ECU digital control panel. From my research it appears the Compact Vector will be easier to install, given the electrical box is a part of the unit. Am I correct in assuming I would have to replace more than the controller if I select the Compact Vector? From the electrical diagram it appears the new Passport I/O controller plugs into a circuit board in an electrical box not located on the unit. I'm guessing the old circuit board in the existing electrical box will not work. As always, your insights would be helpful. Thanks for the help thus far.
PS: I'll check the duct size when I pull the old one out. That will determine if I go with the 12,000 or 16,000 BTU system.
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8:59 am
June 11, 2009
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Steve Pooler
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Glad you found your password…
Actually a remote box is a benefit…It's already wired from the factory and has a 3-4' pigtail so that you can mount the box for easy access after the install of the unit…I usually save mounting it it for last so that I can make my wire connections to it while it is accessible (on deck) then take it and all wires into the installation cavity together…I even test the unit before mounting the remote box to be sure all is working and I don't have to go back in to change something…
The Turbo is a better unit all around…Quieter, Performs better, No blower motor sticking out the side to hamper installation or placement…
It also drains condensate better, has less metal to rust out, and the blower design handles duct deficiencies/restrictions better…
Keypads…What I think you are calling Controllers….Need to match the board in the electrical box…This is where Marine Air can be confusing…They changed very often…Passport I/O keypad won't work with Passport II board etc…Little Penguin on the face…Big Penguin on the face…Is he facing left or right ?….
Easiest thing to tell you is to plan on buying the current model Keypad & Cable to match the new unit…
You may even want to consider the Cruisair model…They have been much more consistent in controls, so down the line it may be less confusing to replace…the units are exactly the same (even built in the same plant) the only difference is the control board for the brand of control and the stickers/model numbers differ…Cruisair uses the SMX II or SMX IR keypad…Both will work in each others place, and once activated the unit can even run without….You can actually unplug it and walk away with the control in your hand (good for troubleshooting another unit aboard when service or parts are not available, or close when crusing) and the unit will continue to run with it's last known settings…You can then just turn the unit without control on/off with the breaker.
The SMX IR is probably the best to cover your existing control/keypad hole and can also be operated via Infra Red remote control (last checked it was a $50 option)
Let me know if I missed something…
Steve~
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5:25 pm
June 11, 2009
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mmodlin
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I'll research my current electrical box when I get to the boat this weekend, but it appears to have the circuit boards for both self-contained units in one box. If that is the case, can I remove the old circuit board for the old unit and install the new board in the same location or will I need to purchase and secure a compatible circuit board in a new location. If I go with the Turbo, am I correct in assuming I will need to purchase the unit, keypad, and a circuit board for the keypad as well?
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10:02 am
June 12, 2009
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Steve Pooler
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mmodlin said:
I'll research my current electrical box when I get to the boat this weekend, but it appears to have the circuit boards for both self-contained units in one box. If that is the case, can I remove the old circuit board for the old unit and install the new board in the same location or will I need to purchase and secure a compatible circuit board in a new location. If I go with the Turbo, am I correct in assuming I will need to purchase the unit, keypad, and a circuit board for the keypad as well?
I'm sorry if I was not clear…The Turbo, and all Self Contained units that I can think of that were built for digital control…Come/Came with the circuit board for the keypad already in the electrical box…All that is then needed is the keypad & proper length cable to connect it to the box from it's (keypad) desired mounting location….
That is…Unless the boat originally had installed units that were built for 3 knob manual controls, and then later was retrofitted to digital…It would then have a separate box for the power logic board installed & connected to the elect box on/for the units capacitor/s etc…
In this case you would remove that extra box with the old unit…Then connect power, pump & the keypad cable directly to the Turbo's box.
I do not know of a box that had 2 logic boards for two different units.
I guess I can also describe it like this…You can buy a Turbo that is ready for the digital…or one that is ready for the 3 knob…
The one ready for digital costs more, has the board, and also has a longer warranty due to the fault protections that the digital control has that can protect the unit.
I'm not clear on Marine Air…But Cruisair's warranty is 2 years (parts & labor) with the digital unit, vs 1 year for the 3 knob unit.
Steve~
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10:29 am
June 12, 2009
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mmodlin
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Steve, I think I am trying to make this more complicated than it is. You're very clear, it's just my head was fuzzy.
I'm going to purchase the Vector Turbo with the Passport I/O controller. The only other thing I need is a backplate to install the Passport in the same opening as the old ECU controller. I've been quoted 1,968.00 for the unit, 159.00 for the controller, and 20.00 for the backplate. Now all I need to do is figure out how to get my butt down in that small space.
Thanks for the help.
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11:06 am
June 12, 2009
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Steve Pooler
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I might add/ask…If your boat has only one seawater pump that supplies both A/C units…There will also be a pump relay box with a circuit board in it.
This box receives a signal wire from each units pump connection (in or on it's box) and it then sends power to the seawater pump no matter which of the two units is calling for it….If there is a pump relay installed there should also be a breaker in the main power panel labeled A/C pump or similar.
If there are two pumps, a relay is not needed, and each units pump connection (at it's elect box) would instead run directly to the respective seawater pump for that unit…and no breaker in the main panel.
Thought you may be looking at a pump relay thinking it has something to do with the digital controls…Not so…This relay box would be there even if the boat had 3 knob manual controls originally (that is if, it only has one pump that supplies both units)
Steve~
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11:44 am
June 12, 2009
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Steve Pooler
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If you are in my shipping area…I may be able to beat those prices…Where are you located ?
Steve~
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8:08 pm
June 12, 2009
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mmodlin
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Let me provide you some more details. I have a 1994 Carver 350 Aft Cabin. It does have a single pump for the two self-contained units (3 breakers on the shore power two line; one for each unit and one for the pump). I don't think I have come across the pump relay box yet but I will take a good look at the system this weekend. I will also take a look at the aft unit and note any similarities between the two (electrical box, etc.). I'm assuming the current relay box will not need to be replaced and the two pump wires on the circuit board would go to that relay. But you may know what they say about assuming.
I try to do as much work on the boat as I can because it increases my knowledge. It has also given me respect as to why mechanics charge as much as they do. With the help of fine folks like yourself, I have had a lot of fun in the three years we have owned her.
The shipping cost was quoted as 95.00. The prices came from a dealer in Tampa and we reside in Newport News, Virginia. As you have been so helpful with this project, I would rather give you the business.
I'm looking forward to a quite AC system. Those old rotary vector units are loud especially the one under the bed in the aft cabin.
I will take some photo's of the electrical boxes and other components.
Thanks again
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8:13 am
June 13, 2009
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Steve Pooler
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Post edited 11:41 am – June 13, 2009 by Steve Pooler
I'm not familiar with your model boat…at least not by model #…It does however give me an Idea of the layout…and really…most boats, even of the same model don't usually have the same installation of A/C…
Lots of A/C is installed after the boat is delivered, so it then is up to the installer as to what goes where…I know I almost never installed A/C systems as the boat builder would have done…To be honest…We could usually do a better job than the boat builder because they don't keep guys on staff that are trained in A/C service, and what makes a system work best.
Hatteras A/C was always factory installed (A/C is standard equip) so yes in that case each model & year was pretty much the same, but Carver, Luhrs, Silverton, Mainship etc…Only offered it as an expensive option…So a lot of folks/dealers ordered the boat without, and opted for dealer installation, or contracted the A/C install themselves.
The pump relay may be down closer to the pump (I have found them in some strange hidden places) It should be a box with a Marine Air label that the pump's wire runs to…No you should not need to replace it unless it is not working properly (starting the pump when either unit calls for it) Sometimes they fail for one unit or the other, and the pump will only start with (in your case) one system instead of either…
You do need to verify it's operation after the new unit is installed to be sure it triggers the pump with either unit by running each unit by itself (with the other off) then checking for water over the side with each…This could have been the reason for the salon unit failure if it did not bring the pump on.
After looking it up…The prices you were quoted seem pretty good…20% off retail ?…I can at least match that, and offer more of the same as I have been doing here…I don't know who you are dealing with, but if they are in the Tampa Bay area they are buying from the same distributor as I do (I actually worked for the distributor here for 10-11 years) as everything Marine Air, or Cruisair, that goes thru this area comes thru them.
Also if you are looking to make the A/C as quiet as possible…There is an optional sound shield for the compressor of the Turbo units available…
I have not yet seen one, but it shows in the spec guide, and they claim it reduces noise by as much as 50% (3- 5 db)
I don't see it in the price book…but I could find out price & availability if it interests you…
Remember, your duct size (6″ or 7″) will be the deciding factor before I could quote prices…If you have 6″ you really should only go with a 12,000 which would be cheaper than the 16,000 I believe you were quoted on…A 12,000 would be better on your shore cord too since from your description it seems that both units & pump run on one 30 amp service.
Steve~
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5:40 pm
June 16, 2009
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mmodlin
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Steve – I took a good look at the system this weekend. One of the two electrical boxes under the dinette is the pump relay box. The other is the electrical box for the unit. The pump relay box has four entries for connections on the side. Perhaps two for the front unit and two for the aft?
At first glance I thought I might need to remove the water heater to gain access to the attachment for the duct but I found an access hole in the dinette seat. It is the 7-inch duct. If I have this correct, it looks like the only thing I need to do is remove the water inlet and outlet hoses, disconnect the duct, disconnect the drain hose, remove the hold down fasteners, and remove the electrical connections at the electrical box. I'm I correct in assuming the only wiring connected to the unit's electrical box is the L1, L2, L3, pump relay connections, and digital display connections?
I've heard the Vector Turbo is quite enough without the sound box but it would not hurt to get a price. Much easier to put one on BEFORE I position the unit in place. When I replace the aft unit it will have one. It's mounted right under the bed.
The dealer I spoke with said the Passport I/O has the same size cutout as the old ECU keypad. To be sure, I'll pull it out this weekend and measure.
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