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	<title>marine-ac.com&#187; Refrigeration</title>
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		<title>Cold Plate/Hold Over Refrigeration</title>
		<link>http://marine-ac.com/cold-platehold-over-refrigeration/</link>
		<comments>http://marine-ac.com/cold-platehold-over-refrigeration/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Steve Pooler</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Maintence Tips]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Refrigeration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eutectic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eutectic Refrigeration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Florida]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grurnert]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hold Over]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holding]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Plates]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[refrigeration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[West Coast of Florida]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marine-ac.com/?p=2166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For many years Hold Over/Cold plate refrigeration was the way to go for long distance cruising yachts, and over the road refrigerated trucks...The function is Just as the Phrase Implies...Hold Over...For extended periods with a minimum of refrigeration system run time.

The Advantages, and Disadvantages of a Hold Over system are similar to a block of ice because that is essentially what is done...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: left;"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-2516" style="border: 10px solid black; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;" title="crosby cold plate" src="http://marine-ac.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/crosby-cold-plate.jpg" alt="" width="350" height="264" />For many years Hold Over/Cold plate refrigeration was the way to go for long distance cruising yachts, and over the road refrigerated trucks&#8230;The function is Just as the Phrase Implies&#8230;Hold Over&#8230;For extended periods with a minimum of refrigeration system run time.</p>
<p>The Advantages, and Disadvantages of a Hold Over system are similar to a block of ice because that is essentially what is done&#8230;</p>
<p>The hold over plate/s in the box is/are approx 3&#8243; thick, and have copper tubing run through them which is then surrounded by a liquid that freezes (and re-freezes) when the refrigeration system is run&#8230; a Block of Ice really&#8230;The idea is to not to have to run the system but once or twice a day to maintain a box&#8217;s design temp.</p>
<p>The the solution/liquid is generally a glycol solution (or brine water in older plates) that is mixed for a lower freezing point than water&#8230;A refrigerator plate solution can be mixed to around 26 degrees F&#8230;A freezer plate can be 0 degrees or even lower depending on the temp you want the box maintained, and how much insulation is surrounding the box (more on that later)</p>
<p><span id="more-155"></span></p>
<p>Other than what I have stated above&#8230;There really aren&#8217;t that many advantages to a hold over plate system&#8230;Yes they can work well for the intended purpose, and have for many years for that purpose&#8230;Thing is, they really are nothing like what most folks are used to at home, and that in itself  can be one big disadvantage&#8230;</p>
<p>If you have, or are considering a hold over system I will try to list some of the lower points when compared to a traditional refrigeration system&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li>Expense&#8230;Custom Hold Over Systems &amp; Boxes are expensive to design &amp; build&#8230;Proper insulation &amp; door gaskets are key factors too&#8230;Insulation should be around 4&#8243; thick everywhere (even against the hull) with no air pockets.</li>
<li>Given Space&#8230;The insulation requirements and the space the plates take up, really tend to limit internal box size in the space allocated for a box.</li>
<li>Weight&#8230;A plate full of liquid is quite heavy.</li>
<li>Power&#8230;Big plates full of liquid require a large refrigeration unit to pull them down to temp, and Initial pull down time is also much longer to get the box temp to stabilize.</li>
<li>Recovery&#8230;Holding Plates don&#8217;t recover temp very fast after opening the box&#8230;No more leaving the door open at all&#8230;In fact you really should only open them once a day&#8230;But what about my beers ?</li>
<li>Defrost&#8230;Any ice build up acts like a insulation blanket over the plate, and thus raises box temp&#8230;By design, hold over plates can&#8217;t utilize auto defrost cycles effectively, so you end up scraping the ice off all the time to maintain temp, and the more you open the door&#8230;The more the ice/frost forms&#8230;Break out that windshield scraper you came south to get away from. (but at least up there you could put the beer outside)</li>
<li>Safety&#8230;Last but not least is the possibility of a Glycol leak into your food without knowing it&#8230;Yes it&#8217;s rare but does happen&#8230;Glycol is like antifreeze in your car and is Very toxic.</li>
</ul>
<p>I have found one of the biggest misunderstandings about Holding Plate systems is&#8230;Hold Over Period Box Temp/s&#8230;I&#8217;ll try to explain&#8230;</p>
<p>Hold Over Period is the time it takes the plates to thaw from a solid back to a liquid&#8230;Hold Over Period Temp is the box temp during that period&#8230;This is where the box/system was designed/intended to operate&#8230;.</p>
<p>Any additional run time below the freezing point of the solution is pretty much wasted energy because the plates will rise in temp very rapidly back up to the change over (thawing ) point anyway&#8230;Then the box temp will again rise rapidly when the solution has thawed (if the compressor is not run)</p>
<p>This is where insulation, door gaskets, drains etc&#8230; Have the most effect&#8230;Ideally with all things at their best, you would like to maintain a box temp that is 15 degrees above the plate temp when the plate is frozen&#8230;That means with a 26 degree refrigerator plate you might expect a 41 degree hold over period, and with a 0 degree freezer plate you might expect +15 degree hold over temp  (not good for ice cream)&#8230;.Yes you can go lower with the solution temps (mixture to attain lower freezing point) but to effectively do that you will need to use a system that is set up for a lower temp refrigerant than the old standard R-12 or it&#8217;s replacement R134A systems that we have seen for years&#8230;Grunert offers a R-404A system and plates mixed to do it&#8230;</p>
<p>Different than a conventional system (non hold over) that senses ambient air box temp, and cycles the compressor (if power is available) to maintain that temp&#8230;A good Hold Over system only senses Plate temp (to keep the plate frozen) in order to save energy, and thus the box temp&#8230;<strong>Is what it is</strong>&#8230;Depending on all the factors I have mentioned&#8230;</p>
<p>Thing is&#8230;Boxes, doors, gaskets &amp; insulation are almost never perfect&#8230;Especially as they age&#8230;So as you might see&#8230;Maintaining these marginal temps for food storage is very critical, and a chore for the owner of such systems&#8230;Most never utilise the real design of the system as a hold over system so to speak&#8230;They generally end up adjusting the thermostats to get the box temp they want and leave it at that&#8230;Thus running it like a conventional system&#8230;Which it is not as good at as one designed to operate that way.</p>
<p>Knowing all the advantages &amp; disadvantages is key&#8230;Yes Hold Over systems can still provide a long distance cruising option, but with things like today&#8217;s high efficiency DC to AC power inverters, or the little DC powered flat plate systems&#8230;A more standard system can offer the refrigeration you may be more accustomed to at less expense.</p>
<p>Steve~</p>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>More on Hold Over/Cold Plates</title>
		<link>http://marine-ac.com/more-on-hold-overcold-plates/</link>
		<comments>http://marine-ac.com/more-on-hold-overcold-plates/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Steve Pooler</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[About]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[AC/Systems]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Maintence Tips]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Marine AC]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Refrigeration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Boat]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cold Plate/Holding Plate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eutectic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eutectic Refrigeration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[marine refrigeration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[refrigeration]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://marine-ac.com/?p=2166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In another forum I visit&#8230;I answered a post http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=130856 from a gentleman that was considering replacing his 12v standard plate system with a like system utilizing a Hold Over/Cold Plate in his factory (boat builder) built top loading box&#8230;The system he was considering is one of the package type systems offered today, and below is a copy [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In another forum I visit&#8230;I answered a post <a href="http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=130856">http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=130856</a> from a gentleman that was considering replacing his 12v standard plate system with a like system utilizing a Hold Over/Cold Plate in his factory (boat builder) built top loading box&#8230;The system he was considering is one of the package type systems offered today, and below is a copy of my post of considerations&#8230;(I had linked to my previous article here on Marine-AC)  <a href="http://marine-ac.com/2009/03/15/cold-platehold-over-refrigeration/">http://marine-ac.com/2009/03/15/cold-platehold-over-refrigeration/</a></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica; color: midnightblue; font-size: x-small;"><span id="msg"><strong>Let me say first that I&#8217;m not against holding plate systems but&#8230;Some of the points I&#8217;m trying to make in the article are&#8230;</strong></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica; color: midnightblue; font-size: x-small;"><span><strong><span id="more-306"></span><br />
</strong></span></span></p>
<p>Holding plates are a much different animal&#8230;In order to get the performance/temp desired, and holding time at that temp&#8230;Many factors come into play such as insulation, size of box vs size of plate, door seals, top or bottom loading, plate solution temp etc&#8230;</p>
<p>A holding plate systems main design purpose is to keep a given box at a desired temp for a period of time, without running the refrigeration unit to keep it there for that period of time&#8230;</p>
<p>Basically&#8230;The temp of the box while running the unit has little to do with how a holding plate system was intended to be used&#8230;and given two plates of the same size (area used in the box) a holding plate will not offer anywhere near the BTU of heat absorption that a standard plate will offer&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li>Running&#8230;Plate for Plate, a holding plate needs to be much larger to do that same job of heat absorption.</li>
<li>A typical 134a standard plate system will run that plate surface at -10 F.</li>
<li>A 134a holding plate system can run the tubing inside the plate&#8230;and solution (liquid) at that same -10 F&#8230;.But the solution is a limiting factor in some ways&#8230;</li>
<li>134a system plate liquid is typically mixed to change states from a liquid to a solid somewhere between 0 F. to 26 F. Depending on if the plate was meant for a freezer or refrigerator box&#8230;</li>
<li>It is also a larger mass to change the temp of, so running it down to -10 as you might imagine takes more time &amp; energy&#8230;and Likely never getting the surface of the plate quite down to -10 F.</li>
</ul>
<p>If a holding plate/box is not designed/sized as such (To hold a desired box temp when off) it can be much less efficient than a standard plate system that can recover the box temp much faster and may provide for less overall run time in a 24 hr period.</p>
<p>As you see&#8230;It&#8217;s hard to explain, but installing just any holding plate into a box because it will fit is almost never the answer to the most efficient or ideal box.</p>
<p>Holding plates can be over sized too, and thus undesirable if they keep the box too cold during that hold over period&#8230;Freezing lettuce etc&#8230;</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m saying is&#8230;A Hold over plate can and will continue cooling long after the t-stat has cycled the unit off if it has been run long enough to freeze the solution in the plate&#8230;and If it is enough BTU to compensate for the amount of heat leaking into the box&#8230;<br />
If Not&#8230;Then you will need to run it longer to attain the desired temp in that box&#8230;<br />
The thing is it will warm very rapidly back up to the point that the solution begins to thaw&#8230;and This is where the holding period is (during the thaw, or change of states of the solution) and the box temp during that period is related to all the factors I discussed.</p>
<p>If that holding period box temp is not what is desired&#8230;Then a holding plate has not gained you a thing&#8230;It has hindered things somewhat.</p>
<p>Am I making sense ?</p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica; color: midnightblue; font-size: x-small;"><span>The OP responded that I had&#8230;So I felt it might help here also&#8230;</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica; color: midnightblue; font-size: x-small;"><span>Steve~</span></span></p>
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